Curse

Does-it-Matter · Nov 09, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormcloud
Make a choice. If you "payed" for UW/FoW then register your account to europe. Since they have favor most of the time during the day that would seem to be your best option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This is an idiotic argument.

"lolz u dont liek it go 2 yurop n suffer from lag so its a moot point newayz!"

Just a friendly suggestion, but typically when you want to do a satyrical or sarcastic reply of someone's wording you want to actually make it satyrical or sarcastic.

What you do was essentially walk around in a dark room looking for a door. I don't understand it either.

No where in his post did he use "leet" speak, so the crux of your retort shouldn't include it either. Just future advice.

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More to the point and back on topic.

It's hardly an idiotic arguement. Supposedly this person "paid" soley for UW/FoW content (although, I'm sure it's probably "I paid for Guild Wars, did everything, so now all I do is UW/FoW runs." Hardly paid for, because I doubt anyone bought GW just to do UW/FoW.)

If his arguement is "Europe always has favor, I can't go to UW/FoW" then a logical reply is go to Europe.

It's a competative REWARD. You are not entitled to UW/FoW simply by being there. If you really want to pursue that slippry-slope a logical step would next say "I paid to be able to play in Lion's Arch, but all these enemies are beating me and I can't get there, ANet get rid of the monsters."

Think of it as a pre-requisite for a quest. You can't get through a portal in Cantha without doing X mission. You can't get to UW/FoW without having Favor. If your team can't get favor, it would be similar to your team not being able to beat a mission.

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The more I read these boards, the more I see "Give me, give me now! I deserve it."

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Edit:

Quote:

What happens when Europe starts getting favor less, and America more? Do I keep switching to and fro until I'm stuck?

Personally? I'd say that its part of the game. If it starts switching soon to America having favor, then why are you complaining? Its just statistics.

There's what, 4 regions which can gain favor? (Japan, Europe, America, Taiwan... I believe?) The basic assumption is the statistics will more or less balance out over time so each has similar favor amounts.

If Japan has favor for a month, Europe has it for the whole next month, etc., etc., then that is statistically the same as if it went DAY 1= Japan, DAY 2= Europe, DAY 3= America, DAY 4=Taiwan, DAY 5= Japan, etc...

If you don't like the fact that you don't have favor, or you don't have it "enough," then do something about it. Get active!

Don't expect stuff to come your way, try working for it once in a while. Get a group, try win HA or "motivate" others to win, or dance in a circle five times a minute until America has favor or whatever you feel you need to do other than demanding the game is rewrote to make it easier for you.

If you don't want to work for it, why do you think you should be entitled to it?

Red · Nov 09, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I am an American.
I have made plenty of friends in Europe.
I have a friend who moved back to Korea and plays with their Korean friends.
I have a few contacts in Japan I like to practice my Japanese with and hang around.

Someone please explain to me why I should have to leave behind my American server friends.... or why my foreign friends should have to leave behind their friends from their continents... in order to go into the Underworld or Fissure of Woe together?

It is ludicrous to expect those other people to switch to America. Servers are continental for a reason (well, a couple of them). I don't think my Korean friend will find a lot of Koreans on the American servers.

I would really, really like to play the high-end PvE with my friends; but, given the limited number of server transfers ((how do you even move from America to Korea, anyway? The menu offered to me when I try to change servers is a choice between American and Europe)), I have to remain in American and he in Korea.

Despite the international nature of the Internet, what we have is a system that prevents the crossing of multiple boundaries. Best I can do is go to Korea; but then, how will I play with my Euro buddies?

Justification please.

Clone · Nov 09, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

For the people suggesting that PvE areas be controlled by PvP matches, I'm interested to see what you'd have to say if this was a two way street. I propose that every time Shiro or Litch is killed, a random player in halls from a different region gets instantly killed.

Age · Nov 09, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I wouldn't say it is Europe that has favour most of the time it is more spead out but I have noticed America is getting less and less of it.It could be the 6vs6 or that American players are playing in GvG or TA and possibly more in AB.

Cjlr · Nov 09, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

If his arguement is "Europe always has favor, I can't go to UW/FoW" then a logical reply is go to Europe.

It's a competative REWARD. You are not entitled to UW/FoW simply by being there...

Unless by "there" you mean Europe, which seems to be the crux of your argument...

Changing servers changes nothing. Remember the bad old days, when America had favour 80% of the time; Europe hardly ever? "America always has favour, I can't go to UW/FoW!" "Switch to America you noob."

It doesn't change the fact that in either case, people are being REWARDED for what OTHER PEOPLE are doing. I don't know about the rest of you but that's not how my dictionaries define the word. Saying you should switch servers is just resigning to a dumb conceit.

Smile Like Umean It · Nov 09, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Edit:

Personally? I'd say that its part of the game. If it starts switching soon to America having favor, then why are you complaining? Its just statistics.

There's what, 4 regions which can gain favor? (Japan, Europe, America, Taiwan... I believe?) The basic assumption is the statistics will more or less balance out over time so each has similar favor amounts.

If Japan has favor for a month, Europe has it for the whole next month, etc., etc., then that is statistically the same as if it went DAY 1= Japan, DAY 2= Europe, DAY 3= America, DAY 4=Taiwan, DAY 5= Japan, etc...

If you don't like the fact that you don't have favor, or you don't have it "enough," then do something about it. Get active!

Don't expect stuff to come your way, try working for it once in a while. Get a group, try win HA or "motivate" others to win, or dance in a circle five times a minute until America has favor or whatever you feel you need to do other than demanding the game is rewrote to make it easier for you.

If you don't want to work for it, why do you think you should be entitled to it?

Complaining? I'm not complaining, because of the simple fact that it doesn't matter for me whether Europe or America has favor, I can still access UW/FoW either way. This does not hold true for everyone.
As for "getting active" go read my post again. Would you like to explain to how I'm supposed to hold Halls and go play in UW/FoW?

Does-it-Matter · Nov 09, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

Unless by "there" you mean Europe, which seems to be the crux of your argument...

Changing servers changes nothing. Remember the bad old days, when America had favour 80% of the time; Europe hardly ever? "America always has favour, I can't go to UW/FoW!" "Switch to America you noob."

It doesn't change the fact that in either case, people are being REWARDED for what OTHER PEOPLE are doing. I don't know about the rest of you but that's not how my dictionaries define the word. Saying you should switch servers is just resigning to a dumb conceit.

Actually by "there" I was implying ToA.

Please note, although I'm listing it as an option, I am not advocating server-hopping just to access less than 5% of the game. It was just an obvious answer to a question posed.

Reward can be a fickle word honestly, where the prize does not need to be paralleled to the effort put forth. A "door prize" for instance is a reward (ranging from small to significant) for simply being X person to do Y activity.

In this sense, the Y can simply be membership to X server. Or it could be actually winning favor for your server.

Often enough in life equal rewards may not have equal effort required. For all the college students out there, I'll use the example of scholarships.

Some scholarships require a LOT of effort, but then at the same time, you could get one with the same monetary value simply for meeting X criterea.

So whether you won HA yourself, or you simply belong to the sever that did, you get the same reward. It's a prize, much like getting a gold or green, its not constant and it should not be expected.

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EDIT:

Damn people post fast!

Quote:

Would you like to explain to how I'm supposed to hold Halls and go play in UW/FoW?

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never personally done it, but I'm pretty sure after you win HA you can move your character to a different location within one of the three continents, right? Your character is not required to stay in HA. Also, I've never been kicked out of FoW/UW when my server has lost favor.

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me it seems your answer is obvious. Do one, then go to the other.

Lord Sojar · Nov 09, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never personally done it, but I'm pretty sure after you win HA you can move your character to a different location within one of the three continents, right? Your character is not required to stay in HA. Also, I've never been kicked out of FoW/UW when my server has lost favor.

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me it seems your answer is obvious. Do one, then go to the other.

Right, because that works... Oh wait... you have to hold halls 4x in a row. Once you do that, if you leave, you leave an empty spot in your team, and then Europe will take favor back in a matter of 8 mins. So....going off that... you would have to zone/logoff and goto ToA with your character, THEN bring together a worthy team of good pvers and then decide entrance fee etc etc, get keys, 1 if rdy all, etc; ALL IN 8 MINUTES? That would be a disaster unless you were in a guild that was always ready to goto FoW or UW, and most people are NOT. So... that notion is RETARDED.

/signed

CHANGE IT.

dansamy · Nov 09, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

When America or Korea had favor ~80% of the time and Europe rarely held it, the Euros complained, whined, pleaded and begged. To which Anet replied "tough, go get better at Tombs and take it for yourself." Sorry to break it to you folks, but the favor system ain't changing just because you pitch a temper tantrum. FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep are all optional "elite" content. They are not fundamental portions of the game and you are in no way "entitled" to entry into them.

Myria · Nov 10, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

For the people suggesting that PvE areas be controlled by PvP matches, I'm interested to see what you'd have to say if this was a two way street. I propose that every time Shiro or Litch is killed, a random player in halls from a different region gets instantly killed.

Don't forget to have it announced system-wide every time it happens...

Other than that, fantastic idea, it'd be worth keeping the idiotic favor system just for the screams of agony that'd come from the PVP camp.

Juicey Shake · Nov 10, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

access 24/7 would be much nicer... go whenever you want, and ecto prices nice and low. yay.

winkgood · Nov 10, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Its funny how we only whine when an imbalanced system effects us. Where were we during all this time that Korea, Japan, and Taiwan have been denied access to FoW and UW? I agree that the current system is kind of broken and that some sort of change should be implemented. I've suggested the idea of giving free entrace to those with favor and charging the normal 1K fee for those that don't have favor. I mean, think about it. If you really had favor of the Gods, then why would you need to pay them 1K to enter? My current solution to the dilema is using one of my other accounts on Euro servers. That way I can farm FoW to my hearts content all day long while America doesn't have favor.

Pro-Monk · Nov 10, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Favor System and I hope Anet doesn't change it. To think that Anet "owes" you access to these areas just because you bought the game is ludicrous. I suppose they owe you a perfect Crystalline Sword too....lol.

I see WoW in your future.

Myria · Nov 10, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Its funny how we only whine when an imbalanced system effects us. Where were we during all this time that Korea, Japan, and Taiwan have been denied access to FoW and UW?

Actually back when it was nearly always America or Korea with favor and Europe rarely got it there were a lot of Americans arguing that the system made no sense. This isn't a new discussion by any stretch of the imagination, and certainly not one brought on only by America (and the rest of the world outside of Europe) rarely getting favor.

Cjlr · Nov 10, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Actually by "there" I was implying ToA.

Fair enough...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Reward can be a fickle word honestly, where the prize does not need to be paralleled to the effort put forth. A "door prize" for instance is a reward (ranging from small to significant) for simply being X person to do Y activity.

In this sense, the Y can simply be membership to X server. Or it could be actually winning favor for your server.

So whether you won HA yourself, or you simply belong to the sever that did, you get the same reward. It's a prize, much like getting a gold or green, its not constant and it should not be expected.

Just because the system is poorly implemented, doesn't mean it should be.

Let's say the Gods' Realms are Cedar Point. You really want to go to Cedar Point. But whoops! Too bad... The only people who get to go to Disneyland are the ones whose home state is America's winningest college football team. What does Cedar Point have to do with college football? Duh, it's a prize. Let's say you're from Delaware. For the sake of argument, let's also say that Delaware isn't exactly the winningest state in the Union (I picked it for no real reason - not because I actually know anything about college football). But you really, really want to go to Cedar Point! You pore over the bill of rights but it doesn't say a thing about equal access to Cedar Point. What do you do? Move to South Carolina? Start your own college and build your own national championship team? Complain your ass off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dansamy

When America or Korea had favor ~80% of the time and Europe rarely held it, the Euros complained, whined, pleaded and begged. To which Anet replied "tough, go get better at Tombs and take it for yourself." Sorry to break it to you folks, but the favor system ain't changing just because you pitch a temper tantrum. FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep are all optional "elite" content. They are not fundamental portions of the game and you are in no way "entitled" to entry into them.

So because people complained about an unfair system, and nothing happened, they should stop complaining? I don't see why that should happen... Plus, when has ANet ever directly said anything about the issue? They probably have, but I can't recall anything at the moment.

Kakumei · Nov 10, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Just a friendly suggestion, but typically when you want to do a satyrical or sarcastic reply of someone's wording you want to actually make it satyrical or sarcastic.

What you do was essentially walk around in a dark room looking for a door. I don't understand it either.

No where in his post did he use "leet" speak, so the crux of your retort shouldn't include it either. Just future advice.

I suppose I should go ahead and welcome you to the Internet, because it's apparent you've never been here before. Overdone "leetspeak" is a common method to display the idiocy of a statement--one I don't usually use, but it seemed appropriate at the time. I'm sorry you disagree.

Quote:

If his arguement is "Europe always has favor, I can't go to UW/FoW" then a logical reply is go to Europe.

Or, you know, to see if other people feel the same, and perhaps a change to the system is in order? It's not like Anet has never ever listened to players before.

Quote:

It's a competative REWARD. You are not entitled to UW/FoW simply by being there. If you really want to pursue that slippry-slope a logical step would next say "I paid to be able to play in Lion's Arch, but all these enemies are beating me and I can't get there, ANet get rid of the monsters."

Slippery slopes have no place in a rational debate.

Quote:

Think of it as a pre-requisite for a quest. You can't get through a portal in Cantha without doing X mission. You can't get to UW/FoW without having Favor. If your team can't get favor, it would be similar to your team not being able to beat a mission.

There's nothing wrong with having a prerequisite to be able to do high-level content. There's a lot wrong with that prerequisite being something completely unrelated to the high-level content in question.

Quote:

Personally? I'd say that its part of the game. If it starts switching soon to America having favor, then why are you complaining? Its just statistics.

America used to have favor constantly, the way Europe does now. I said it was unfair then, and I say it's unfair now. It's a needless and useless system.

Quote:

There's what, 4 regions which can gain favor? (Japan, Europe, America, Taiwan... I believe?) The basic assumption is the statistics will more or less balance out over time so each has similar favor amounts.

Add Korea to that list. That assumption is false--there is no balance. Europe dominates, America a distant second, and the other three rarely, if ever, take favor.

Quote:

If you don't like the fact that you don't have favor, or you don't have it "enough," then do something about it. Get active!

This is also an idiotic argument. You, a heavy PvEer, want to go visit the Underworld. Oh, you can't--you have to go get good enough at PvP not only to take Halls, but to hold it five times in a row. Not interested? Tough!

Clearly an unfair--and a needlessly so--situation.

Quote:

Often enough in life equal rewards may not have equal effort required. For all the college students out there, I'll use the example of scholarships.

Some scholarships require a LOT of effort, but then at the same time, you could get one with the same monetary value simply for meeting X criterea.

I was waiting for someone to compare this to real life. The difference between real life and a game--this is a game. Rules can be put into place and enforced in order to make sure it's fair.

dansamy · Nov 10, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

So because people complained about an unfair system, and nothing happened, they should stop complaining? I don't see why that should happen... Plus, when has ANet ever directly said anything about the issue? They probably have, but I can't recall anything at the moment.

When the euros complained Anet's response was the favor system was "working as designed". I don't recall if Gaile, Alex, etc posted that type of response or if that was the canned email response some of the complainers received when they sent their complaints in.

I didn't say you should stop complaining. I love how people read beyond what I write and make assumptions. It seems to happen a lot and it makes me concerned for the reading comprehension level of the average poster. I said that they won't change it just because you are complaining. The only reason they'll see fit to change is if they deem it to be "imbalanced" in some way, and in a year and a half they haven't seen fit to declare it imbalanced or game-breaking such that they see the need to alter the way it functions.

As for PvPers going to take back favor and then go UW or FoW, yes they do. I've been on teams that "handed off" the win to another team so that we could map out and go to UW/FoW. I've also been on the team that received the hand off so the holding team could leave. Just because you aren't capable of doing it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Also, it would take four wins for another region to take favor from us, so that equates to at least 20 minutes to get your team and go.

Does-it-Matter · Nov 10, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

Let's say the Gods' Realms are Cedar Point. You really want to go to Cedar Point. But whoops! Too bad... The only people who get to go to Disneyland are the ones whose home state is America's winningest college football team. What does Cedar Point have to do with college football? Duh, it's a prize. Let's say you're from Delaware. For the sake of argument, let's also say that Delaware isn't exactly the winningest state in the Union (I picked it for no real reason - not because I actually know anything about college football). But you really, really want to go to Cedar Point! You pore over the bill of rights but it doesn't say a thing about equal access to Cedar Point. What do you do? Move to South Carolina? Start your own college and build your own national championship team? Complain your ass off?

I understand where you're going with this, but the example is over-complicated to the model.

First of all, the prize and method of obtaining the prize are more related than a random point and a sport (gaining the Gods' attention in HA then in turn means they allow you into their realms.)

Secondly, although your example has several more "teams" than necissary and I believe this could be used as an exaggeration to the point. If there was only four states with four teams it doesn't look as "impossible."

Third, "starting your own college and forming a national championship team" is not to scale with any of the other elements. Again a perhaps accidential case of exaggeration to prove the point.

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While I understand where you're going, for something like this its probably best to keep it either to scale or stay with abstracts.

You have four teams, and their fans, whom are all hopeful of being able to go to a certain location upon their victory. Competitions are frequent, and varied in difficulty to the point luck even plays a significant role.

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Given the football analogy, something just hit me.

Using the ProBowl as an example. Here we have a famous, well-watched, coveted and status-worthy competition.

No player needs to go to the ProBowl to be the winner for that season, just as no GW character needs to go to FoW/UW to beat the game. This is something extra, for continued enjoyment and a reward for those who show excellence (and a reward for fans whom get to watch their favorite players as well.)

If certain players are always showing excellence in abilities and are consecutively returning, it is not their fault, nor the fault of any officials, coaches or rules-makers that the other players can not attend. If a player wants to get make it here, they have to work for it. Otherwise, if everyone was able to attend, it wouldn't be the PRO bowl, it would just be another season of football games.

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Let's get down to the heart of the matter and stop mixing words.

FoW/UW is an elitist reward for excellence. It is NOT a required component of the game (similarly as easter eggs are not required, but appreciated and at times coveted parts of other video games.)

It is a reward, shared with those from similar backgrounds (servers).

If everyone automatically had access to it, it would not be an award, and it would certainly not be elitest or status-worthy, it would simply be additional content (e.g. Sorrow's Furnance).

Also, when seeing the word "elitest" please do not knee-jerk to "arrogant." While the two are often synonomous, they are not the same. To use a reference from grade school, this is more of a "Honor Roll students get to go on a field trip" rather than "Teacher's Pet gets to feel superior to everyone."

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We can group this with Elite (there's that word again...) Missions in Cantha. Whichever Guild/Alliance controls that respective town has access to it (reward for excellence) but they are likewise able to "ferry" others along (in a similar method as all persons on the same server are allowed into the Gods' Realms.)

If said Alliance does not wish to ferry others, that is their choice, their name is on the door. They won the reward. Or, if another alliance gains control and they are not ferrying, it is a function of the game.

If you are dissatisfied with your inability to get into FoW/UW it is up to you to try and change that. It is the same as being told "no" to a querey of possible ferrying.

You want in? Gain control of the town. You want in? Get favor.

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These areas are supposed to have a competitive and elitist feel to it. While yes, we might all want in, we may not be able to get it. Only so many are allowed at the top of the pyramid.

darkdawn · Nov 10, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I like the favor system but it should be changed a bit. Europe and america are always fighting for favor while korea and the other never have it wich is rly unfair.

Kakumei · Nov 10, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

If everyone automatically had access to it, it would not be an award, and it would certainly not be elitest or status-worthy, it would simply be additional content (e.g. Sorrow's Furnance).

I fail to see the problem here.